dosgame.club is one of the many independent Mastodon servers you can use to participate in the fediverse.
dosgame.club is the fediverse home of <a href="https://dosgameclub.com">DOS Game Club</a>. People here are all in one way or another involved with retro computing or retro gaming.

Administered by:

Server stats:

29
active users

Space Quest Historian

Serious question: Can anyone recommend someone in academia who does (or has done) reputable research of transgender representation in media?

I'm hoping to get at least 3-4 people who know their shit and ask them about THAT SECTION in Space Quest IV. I'm interested in historical context, analysis of the subtext, and of course a judgment call on a deceptively simple question: Is SQ4 transphobic?

Why? Because if I'm going to make a video on a hot-button topic, I feel I'd better cover my fucking bases.

I am, however, also interested to hear from people who are trans (and are comfortable presenting online as trans) about the subject. DM me or swing me a line at contact@spacequesthistorian.com

@sqhistorian I know it's not really what you're asking for (this message was originally replying to your previous toot), but as a transgender person, I'd say the transphobic part is just the robot calling Roger "sicko".

Like, it's clear there's transphobia in that universe as evidenced by Roger and the bot's coded exchange, but I wouldn't say the game itself becomes transphobic until it decides to make Roger in a dress the butt of the joke.

Like, aside from that, I'd probably need a bit of a refresher, but I don't recall anything specifically transphobic. Sexist? Sure. Plenty. But transphobic? That one exchange.

I'm open to all chats about it. Hit me up if you wanna.

@Gwendolyn I'm very interested to hear your perspective! Do you want to move the discussion somewhere private or are you comfortable continuing it out in the open, so to speak?

@Gwendolyn Also, forgive my assumption/presumption, but I thought you were non-binary or genderfluid. 😅

@sqhistorian Oh. Nope. I'm a very 100% binary, estrogen popping, trans woman.

Early on (2018-2019) I suspected I might be non-binary, so that might be where you got that idea, but no.

@sqhistorian I really don't care. Public. Private. I'm pretty open about everything. Whatever would be easier for you, I guess.

@Gwendolyn Well, I guess you did answer most of my questions (e.g. is it problematic beyond Maebot's "sicko" response, etc.). My lingering question there, as far as the setup goes (as to who or what we're meant to be laughing at), what do you make of the narrator's "even though it was almost too enjoyable" line? Juxtapose it with Roger somewhat telling remarks in SQ6, like "I remember when I used to wear my mom's... uh, never mind" and "[I'm] a man trapped in the body of a woman. Wait."

@sqhistorian Ha! I just played through the game to refresh myself and I hit that line and I was just coming back to address that.

Yeah. If you were going to try and defend the game you could argue that portraying transphobia is not the same as the game itself being transphobic. While it's pretty clear that the "sicko" is meant to be a diss to trans people, you could say that the robot is just programmed to be that way. Now, I don't subscribe to that notion, but someone could.

Having the narrator say that, is not the game world portraying transphobia. The narrator is the voice of the game, and there's no defending against it. The game itself is being transphobic.

Since Roger is often meant to be portrayed as someone to be laughed at, he's used to make transphobic jokes. Maybe Roger actually is trans. His internal dialogue in SQ6 and the narrator in SQ4 seem to imply this. The way this is framed in the games is pretty clearly done to be laughed at.

So, yeah. The game itself, not only the world within it, is transphobic... and dear god... sexist.

(edits for clarity)

@Gwendolyn OR... is it subtly portraying a man who isn't ready to admit to himself he might be trans? I get that it's probably what you say it is, and I'm probably reading too much into it... but the one part where I'm struggling a bit is whether or not it's definitively laid out as we're meant to laugh AT Roger. If he's trans, he's clearly still in denial of it, but it seems to be more out of fear of ridicule (which Maebot amply provides, unfortunately).

@Gwendolyn I think the narrator's line about "too enjoyable" is not so much a reflection of a transphobic outlook by the game (and, by that extension, of the writer), but a glimpse into a deeply buried internal conflict of the character. MAYBE. It's also very possible I'm being too charitable. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

@sqhistorian I do think you're being too charitable.

Using hand on the clothing rack plays out these two dialogue boxes. The second one is clearly not talking in Roger's internal voice and is criticizing him.

@Gwendolyn That one is indeed very hard to defend.

@sqhistorian 😕​Yeah. Sorry. I would have definitely preferred your more optimistic proposal. Games meant a ton to me... I mean... still do.

Like, the transphobia is there, but at least it's not some real blatant anti-trans shit. Like, they could have really played up the "ugly man in a dress" shit, but from the dialogue portrait, and how characters treat Roger afterwards, it all treats him as a woman. Sure, there's the whole idea of gender stereotypes being played to here... but that's a different discussion.

Honestly, the idea that Roger could be trans kinda cracks me up because I grew up wanting to be a janitor because of Space Quest... and here I am... a trans janitor.

@sqhistorian It's the Galaxy Galleria part, innit?

@sqhistorian Hmm, my memory on SQ4 is a little fuzzy, I vaguely remember a puzzle where Roger crossdresses I think? I wonder what part of the game you're referring to. (And being trans myself...)

@onfy Yes, that's the one. The question I'm looking to answer is if its framing is, by modern standards, problematic, and additionally to frame it in a historical context of the views on drag/crossdressing/trans representation in the early 90s. (Yes, Ace Ventura will be mentioned, and not in a good way.)

@sqhistorian Hmm, in the context of when I first saw the game (in... the late 2000s I think), I remember thinking the reaction (especially I remember the "sicko" remark) was really negative and rude. I wouldn't really see it in a transgender way, especially in the context in the game (and I certainly don't like being called a crossdresser that way... though technically I'm crossdressing every day, just in the opposite direction, "boymoding".)

@sqhistorian I also remember finding an adventure game called Rex Nebular and being curiously intrigued by the premise, but also thinking the gameplay was shit.

@onfy For my money, Rex Nebular is garbage front to back, especially in (but not limited to) its portrayal of gender roles.

@sqhistorian The gameplay was enough of a put off on me trying to get very into it, way back when I tried it on my DOS PC, but I wouldn't have been very cognizant back then anyway. From what I remember and what I've heard since the rest of the content was terrible as well, but hmm that premise.

@onfy I guess what's important to me is to decode whether the whole setup is problematic to begin with. Are we meant to be laughing at Roger because he's wearing a dress and is, by his own admission, enjoying it? And, by that extension, is the robot clerk's "sicko" remark meant to be the punchline? Or are we meant to vilify the robot's remark as outmoded and take pride in ourselves even if other people (or robots) think that we're quote-unquote "wrong"?

@onfy I ask because, all this time, I've excused this part of the game because, to me, the joke isn't that Roger's wearing a dress. It's that he's wearing a dress to commit theft but then realizes he's actually enjoying himself. A kind of wholesome "you know what, fuck it, I might keep this" kind of joke.

@onfy It's also worth noting that SQ6 has at least two lines where Roger admits to question his gender, but pulls back, apparently not ready to admit to himself fully, suggesting he might be closeted trans. Some might say that's reading too much into it, though, but I find it intriguing.

@sqhistorian I don't really remember anything about Roger enjoying the experience, I guess that went over my head. Just that you were disguising yourself for vague Sierra puzzle reasons. I guess I should add that I always found the SQ games extremely hard and the ones I experienced were vicariously through videos. I'm not familiar with SQ6 though.

@sqhistorian This is a good question. I just pulled out my copy of Champion's I-IV book and re-read that section and I'd be curious of an assessment there, too.

@powersoffour I'll have a read of that. It didn't occur to me to look in there (or the bizarre fever dream that is the SQ Companion) until now. Thank you!

@powersoffour Well, this isn't... great or anything, but there is again that telling little "identity crisis" remark at the end there. 🤔

@lori PQ4 is a lot of things and none of them are good.

@sqhistorian It's a showcase of forms of bigotry you hadn't even considered might exist yet

@lori I'll get there... I finished PQ1, started on PQ2, then got distracted by something shiny off in the distance.